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	<title>Comments on: Demonstration</title>
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	<description>All about me</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lambertus</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1714</link>
		<dc:creator>Lambertus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1714</guid>
		<description>Our server got stuck tonight (out of diskspace) but that&#039;s resolved now. Please retry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our server got stuck tonight (out of diskspace) but that&#8217;s resolved now. Please retry.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sjors</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>Sjors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>Hi Lambertus,
Thanks!
I did not see any profile when I tried just a few minutes ago. Did I miss the show?
Sjors</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lambertus,</p>
<p>Thanks! </p>
<p>I did not see any profile when I tried just a few minutes ago. Did I miss the show?</p>
<p>Sjors</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lambertus</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1262</link>
		<dc:creator>Lambertus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1262</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got the initial version working: http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html
First reactions are very enthusiastic. Good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got the initial version working: <a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html</a></p>
<p>First reactions are very enthusiastic. Good work!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lambertus</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1258</link>
		<dc:creator>Lambertus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1258</guid>
		<description>This is great. I&#039;ll start working on the simplest form (only routes &lt; 500 nodes) now. When that&#039;s a success I will try client-side (javascript) filtering of the nodes. Test results will then determine how to proceed next. I will let you know when I&#039;m ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great. I&#8217;ll start working on the simplest form (only routes &lt; 500 nodes) now. When that&#8217;s a success I will try client-side (javascript) filtering of the nodes. Test results will then determine how to proceed next. I will let you know when I&#8217;m ready.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sjors</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Sjors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>Hi Lambertus,
I would love for you to try and use my altitude profile server. It is still in the early stages, it runs on my home computer and I have yet to do some real performance testing, but since your planner is also a work in progress, I think we can try it.
So far, I am focusing on walking and cycle routes. I have tried a few random examples and those were less than 100 nodes. That said, we should be able to figure out a way to deal with tens of thousands of nodes.
Perhaps, as a start, you could fetch the altitude profile only for routes with less than 500 nodes? I am reasonably confident my home computer can handle that a couple of times per minute.
And then we need to start thinking about those bigger routes. I have a couple of thoughts here:
* the altitude profile is only a small figure; 100 evenly spaced altitude samples is enough for any route, for most landscapes
* my server could process a big input and pick 100 evenly spaced samples; that should seriously reduce its work load
* sending a 30.000 waypoint route over the network only to use 100 points is a not very efficient use of bandwidth. But requiring route services to do their own filtering adds complexity.
Let&#039;s take it one step at a time though. Do you need any help? I am not sure which language you are using, but if there is a protocol buffer implementation for it, that would be the most efficient solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lambertus,<br />
I would love for you to try and use my altitude profile server. It is still in the early stages, it runs on my home computer and I have yet to do some real performance testing, but since your planner is also a work in progress, I think we can try it.</p>
<p>So far, I am focusing on walking and cycle routes. I have tried a few random examples and those were less than 100 nodes. That said, we should be able to figure out a way to deal with tens of thousands of nodes.</p>
<p>Perhaps, as a start, you could fetch the altitude profile only for routes with less than 500 nodes? I am reasonably confident my home computer can handle that a couple of times per minute. </p>
<p>And then we need to start thinking about those bigger routes. I have a couple of thoughts here:</p>
<p>* the altitude profile is only a small figure; 100 evenly spaced altitude samples is enough for any route, for most landscapes</p>
<p>* my server could process a big input and pick 100 evenly spaced samples; that should seriously reduce its work load</p>
<p>* sending a 30.000 waypoint route over the network only to use 100 points is a not very efficient use of bandwidth. But requiring route services to do their own filtering adds complexity.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take it one step at a time though. Do you need any help? I am not sure which language you are using, but if there is a protocol buffer implementation for it, that would be the most efficient solution.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lambertus</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>Lambertus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>I read that you would love to see your work being used by a route planner website. Well, I have one in development [1] and I think it would be a very nice addition.
The longest route that has been generated so far comprises over 30.000 nodes and many routes are over 8.000 nodes, is your server/application up to it to handle such render request multiple times per minute?
[1] http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read that you would love to see your work being used by a route planner website. Well, I have one in development [1] and I think it would be a very nice addition.</p>
<p>The longest route that has been generated so far comprises over 30.000 nodes and many routes are over 8.000 nodes, is your server/application up to it to handle such render request multiple times per minute?</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/~lambertus/routing-world/index.html</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sjors Provoost</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>Sjors Provoost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-930</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ll see how it goes. Thanks for the plugin link; its installed now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ll see how it goes. Thanks for the plugin link; its installed now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nils</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-929</link>
		<dc:creator>Nils</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 08:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-929</guid>
		<description>The &#039;everything is a URL&#039; thing in REST is pretty cool. I hope it&#039;s not too late to change your API architecture.
Here is the &#039;Subscribe to Comments&#039; plugin for WordPress: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/subscribe-to-comments/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;everything is a URL&#8217; thing in REST is pretty cool. I hope it&#8217;s not too late to change your API architecture.</p>
<p>Here is the &#8216;Subscribe to Comments&#8217; plugin for WordPress: <a href="http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/subscribe-to-comments/" rel="nofollow">http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/subscribe-to-comments/</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sjors</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-928</link>
		<dc:creator>Sjors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-928</guid>
		<description>Interesting post! Some of the comments are also quite useful, if you manage to skip through all the replies that discuss whether or not the post should be consider sexist.
After lots of reading, I have eventually decided (decision making gets easier when you are hungry) to attempt a REST-full approach.
The first reason is aesthetics; I like REST because people say it is more elegant for various reasons.
The second reason is that it is stateless, which makes it easier to host on something like the Google App Engine, which is also stateless. My intuitive guess is that if Google thinks stateless is the way to go for their massive systems, they probably had some smart people think about it. And OpenStreetMap is pretty big already and will probably become massive.
I just found out that the Google App Engine is available for everyone now [1]. Would have been nice if they emailed people on the waiting list that piece of information.
I am going to try to port my application to the App Engine, just using a fraction  of the data to see how quickly I cross the 500 MB storage limit.
They have also released some information about pricing. I should be able to calculate how much storing the entire SRTM data set would cost, etc.
Fun times awaiting!
[1] http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post! Some of the comments are also quite useful, if you manage to skip through all the replies that discuss whether or not the post should be consider sexist.</p>
<p>After lots of reading, I have eventually decided (decision making gets easier when you are hungry) to attempt a REST-full approach. </p>
<p>The first reason is aesthetics; I like REST because people say it is more elegant for various reasons. </p>
<p>The second reason is that it is stateless, which makes it easier to host on something like the Google App Engine, which is also stateless. My intuitive guess is that if Google thinks stateless is the way to go for their massive systems, they probably had some smart people think about it. And OpenStreetMap is pretty big already and will probably become massive.</p>
<p>I just found out that the Google App Engine is available for everyone now [1]. Would have been nice if they emailed people on the waiting list that piece of information.</p>
<p>I am going to try to port my application to the App Engine, just using a fraction  of the data to see how quickly I cross the 500 MB storage limit. </p>
<p>They have also released some information about pricing. I should be able to calculate how much storing the entire SRTM data set would cost, etc. </p>
<p>Fun times awaiting!</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nils</title>
		<link>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/13/demonstration/comment-page-1/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator>Nils</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sprovoost.nl/?p=79#comment-926</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s nothing wrong with KISS (the principle, not the band), but since SOAP is called XML-RPC&#039;s successor, maybe it is interesting.
With XML-RPC/SOAP the focus is on methods (verbs), with REST the focus is on objects (nouns). There are a couple of advantages to REST, but I&#039;m not sure if they apply in your case. It might be nice reading about the differences. I always liked &lt;a href=&quot;http://tomayko.com/writings/rest-to-my-wife&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How I Explained REST to My Wife&lt;/a&gt;,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with KISS (the principle, not the band), but since SOAP is called XML-RPC&#8217;s successor, maybe it is interesting.</p>
<p>With XML-RPC/SOAP the focus is on methods (verbs), with REST the focus is on objects (nouns). There are a couple of advantages to REST, but I&#8217;m not sure if they apply in your case. It might be nice reading about the differences. I always liked <a href="http://tomayko.com/writings/rest-to-my-wife" rel="nofollow">How I Explained REST to My Wife</a>,</p>
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